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The Icon Bar: News and features: Peter Naulls - So long? and thanks for all the ports! [Updat
 

Peter Naulls - So long? and thanks for all the ports! [Updated^2]

Posted by Andrew Duffell on 23:57, 3/6/2005 | , , , , ,
 
Peter Naulls has declared on Usenet in response to several abusive postings that "I will [go away], and I'll take my website with me for a period of time. As well the considerable help I provide to these groups."

This comes after heated debate over his recent guidelines.

The move makes his ports no longer available, and potentially puts the Firefox project in jeporday.

A few weeks ago it was pointed out to us that Peter was no longer on the Drobe editorial team.

Update: riscos.info has now disappeared in whole, and redirects to a well known RISC OS news site.

Update^2 riscos.info has returned in full with the porting project and a new Firefox Pledge-o-meter. Peter has also announced that he is to leave the UK for the USA in the summer.

Link: ArcSite coverage
 

  Peter Naulls - So long? and thanks for all the ports! [Updat
  This is a long thread. Click here to view the threaded list.
 
Phil Mellor Message #93622, posted by monkeyson2 at 00:16, 4/6/2005
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Dear me. It's one thing keeping people in high positions under a reality check (something important in such a small community where everybody plays a significant part), but this is unacceptable, really. What happened to the friendly RISC OS community? We are always bickering now, there's little sense of fun left.

I can only suggest that when conversing electronically, it's easy to forget the human aspect. When you only talk to (or about) a name via a console in Corpus.Medium, you can forget there's a real person you're arguing with, even hurting. It's only at shows like Wakefield when you meet people for real that you realise the flaws in electronic expression, and that your annoyance isn't so heart felt.

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mark stephens Message #93623, posted by markee at 06:14, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93622
Member
Posts: 8
Where has the friendly RISC OS user community gone :-(
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fwibbler Message #93624, posted by fwibbler at 07:22, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93623
fwibbler

Posts: 318
If Peter follows the examples of Justin Fletcher and Stewart Brodie (and I see no reason why he won't), then he won't return to developing software for RISC OS.
I hope people remember this next time they bitch about software being difficult to port or the lack of a decent web browser for RISC OS.
Certainly if Peter saw the original news post on this (as I did) then he won't return.
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Andrew Duffell Message #93625, posted by ad at 08:15, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93624
ad

Posts: 3229
The original news post was no different to this post except for a few other quotes from Usenet.
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mark stephens Message #93626, posted by markee at 08:17, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93625
Member
Posts: 8
If the same amount of effort had gone productively into RISC OS as had gone into this pointless thread....... we can dream :-(
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Andrew Duffell Message #93627, posted by ad at 08:26, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93626
ad

Posts: 3229
It really was a pointless arguement. I liked most of his article enough to post it on The Icon Bar. Okay, there may have been a few things that could have been better worded, but get over it.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Andrew Poole Message #93628, posted by andypoole at 08:33, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93627

Posts: 5552
It could be interesting to find out what will happen to the subscription money that people have sent him for the unix porting project..
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Andrew Duffell Message #93629, posted by ad at 08:43, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93628
ad

Posts: 3229
I hope it doesn't come to that. As far as I'm concerned Peter didn't do anything wrong on this paticular thread, and it seemed people were just intent on hounding him.
Pathetic really, although I hope Ray isn't made "the scapegoat" because it wasn't just him.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
mark stephens Message #93630, posted by markee at 08:52, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93629
Member
Posts: 8
According to Peter's newsletter the UPP is still alive and well (thankfully). It has produced some really great stuff and Firefox would be the icing on the cake.
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Peter Naulls Message #93631, posted by pnaulls at 09:34, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93630
Member
Posts: 317
What TIB has neglected to mention is that this is hardly an isolated incident. Earlier this year, I enquired why they thought it appropriate to antangonise me by deliberately and retrospectively spelling my name wrongly throughout TIB.

The response I high was highly offensive and accused me of many things I simply didn't do. I understand the antagonist later boasted to his colleagues how great he was for being so rude.

The RISC OS community is one I'm too often ashamed to be associated with, when such behaviour and dishonesty is thought to be ok.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
fwibbler Message #93632, posted by fwibbler at 10:56, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93631
fwibbler

Posts: 318
Well if it doesn't, RISC OS will lose two users that I know of. My brother and dad are only continuing to use it because of the promise (from me) of Firefox.
I really, /really/ hope that Peter returns at some point.
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Wesley Kilford Message #93633, posted by moojuicey at 11:24, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93632
Member
Posts: 3
I think it's a shame that such a petty arguement over a single web page designed to try to make usenet better has caused this. What Peter wrote is (I think) the generally accepted rules of usenet. I do disagree on Peter's stance on the use of analogies for instance, but I don't have the time or the will to converse on usenet for hours on end arguing over such a petty matter.

Surely ALL users have better things to do like getting on with either using RISC OS or programming for it and living their lives rather than debating the finer points of nettiquete? Ive seen many a usenet arguement over the last few years that has resulted in hundreds of posts generated, all because Mr User X disagreed with Mr Developer Y.
And the end result? The community ends up upset, people fall out, bandwidth is wasted (for people on dialup), and little or no progress is made with important issues like making the OS better and helping the users achieve what they need to achieve with the OS.

Like many a mother has said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". On that note I hope we can all put our differences aside and get on with more important things.

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fwibbler Message #93634, posted by fwibbler at 11:39, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93633
fwibbler

Posts: 318
Not a chance of that I think.
I'm convinced some people on usenet seem to spend their time waiting for something to be offended at to come along just so that they can be outraged at it.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Annraoi Message #93635, posted by ams at 12:39, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93634
Member
Posts: 56
This amounts to one of the worse bits of news for the RISC OS platform. I am not even thinking of "just" the trojan work Peter has done for the platform in development/porting terms but also his well written and researched articles on Drobe.

I hope Peter will reconsider his decision, although I can't blame him if he doesn't

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Richard Goodwin Message #93636, posted by rich at 12:45, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93635
Rich
Webmaster
The Icon Bar

Posts: 6765
What TIB has neglected to mention is that this is hardly an isolated incident. Earlier this year, I enquired why they thought it appropriate to antangonise me by deliberately and retrospectively spelling my name wrongly throughout TIB.

The response I high was highly offensive and accused me of many things I simply didn't do. I understand the antagonist later boasted to his colleagues how great he was for being so rude.

The RISC OS community is one I'm too often ashamed to be associated with, when such behaviour and dishonesty is thought to be ok.

Which is complete bull, seen through the rose-tinted specs of Mr. Naulls - the ones where he can do no wrong.

What he actaully did was try to tell us how to do our job, call us unprofessional, and poke around in our private forum. After saying thanks but no thanks, on his third email I told him where he could shove his advice.

Am I the only one? I think not. Is he still listed as part of the editorial staff on Drobe? No. And don't give me any bull about that being his decision either.

I'm sure, in person, Mr. Naulls is a perfect gent. But online, he is extremely antagonistic, and when people point this out to him, he'd rather argue the toss with everyone instead of saying, hey, maybe, with all the people saying this, there's something to it. I'm no angel, but at least I realise that, and ask advice from those around me.

It's sad when someone feels the need to take a break from the RISC OS community. It's sadder when they can't see it's their own fault. This is not all about one web page - it's about everything that has lead up to it.

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Alan Gibson Message #93637, posted by liquid at 12:47, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93636
Member
Posts: 11
I try to keep out of these things and don't actually read the posts when they start getting out of hand (got better things to do) but I have to say something here.

I met Peter for the first time at Wakefield, albeit very briefly. He came across as a polite, highly intelligent, well-dressed person and an enormous asset to the platform due to his software and porting work.

Whatever people's personal opinions are we cannot afford to lose yet another highly competent programmer who is willing to work for next to nothing for our platform. Justin, Kira et al are sorely missed.

It would be be appreciated by those of us who care if the necessary reparations were made. And quickly.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Paul Stewart Message #93638, posted by sa110_mk at 18:54, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93637
Member
Posts: 144
Having just read throught the usenet thread, I can quite see why Peter has had enough. Peter has put up with a lot of abuse and insults on usenet of late, and i'm note surprised he has had enough. His departure is a loss to the platform.
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Michael Stubbs Message #93639, posted by arenaman at 20:01, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93638
Member
Posts: 74
If he goes, then he'll have quite a few refunds to make I suppose.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
John Cartmell Message #93640, posted by Q at 20:42, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93639
Member
Posts: 37
As someone that Peter has attacked in the past I have to say that I understand his feelings. He prepared a mostly reasonable set of guidelines and was attacked for it. Whilst people have said that it's no more than Peter has dished out himself that doesn't help him cope with those attacks. The type of person that Peter is helps him produce the sort of work that we all want. It also makes it difficult for him to appreciate the hurt he sometimes does to others and to cope with the same attacks himself. As far as possible I have only responded to comments when I have thought it important to defend myself. I recommend that those attacking Peter do the same. And they were not attacked by Peter.
Despite what has been said in hurt and anger I expect Peter to accept the responsibility that he has voluntarily shouldered because, despite the false impression given by some of his comments, he is as concerned as most of us are to make RISC OS a success.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Paul Stewart Message #93641, posted by sa110_mk at 22:04, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93640
Member
Posts: 144
Peter Naulls - So long, and thanks for all the ports?

No wonder he's leaving us with such headlines. Not to mention why the need for an 'and' after the comma and the '?' at the end.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Alex Singleton Message #93642, posted by alexsingleton at 22:10, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93641
Member
Posts: 11
I don't normally comment here - in fact this might be my very first Iconbar comment.

Peter Naulls is one of the most essential, most important people in the RISC OS community. Give him a break. He deserves much better than the abuse he's getting.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Mark Hutchinson Message #93643, posted by hutchies at 22:24, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93642
Member
Posts: 4
Likewise this may be my first comment, and I second Alex. Peter is way too valuable to lose over a bit of petty squabbling (no matter how self-inflicted, and in this case I actually don´t think it was self-inflicted at all). I hope he comes back soon, and is received warmly.
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Andrew Duffell Message #93644, posted by ad at 23:30, 4/6/2005, in reply to message #93643
ad

Posts: 3229
The headline is a rip off from hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. I didn't add the '?'. Dunno who did, so I can't comment on it.
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John Hoare Message #93645, posted by moss at 00:11, 5/6/2005, in reply to message #93644

Posts: 9346
The question mark is there to signify that it *might* be "so long", or it might not. Pretty obvious :)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Phil Mellor Message #93646, posted by monkeyson2 at 00:17, 5/6/2005, in reply to message #93645
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
I added the question mark. It was supposed to question whether he was leaving for good (the story was posted at 1am last night), rather than whether he should be thanked for his work. I can see how it could be misinterpreted now, sorry.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Paul Stewart Message #93647, posted by sa110_mk at 08:39, 5/6/2005, in reply to message #93646
Member
Posts: 144
But surely if you were trying to question as to if he was leaving or not, the question mark should have been after the 'So long' bit. In my interputation, with the question mark at the end your headline, you are questioning the validity of his contribution to the RISC OS scene by questioning the usefulnes and validity of his ports.
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Andrew Duffell Message #93648, posted by ad at 10:23, 5/6/2005, in reply to message #93647
ad

Posts: 3229
Well we've now clearly stated that that was not out intention, so... Problem Solved!
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Simon Challands Message #93649, posted by SimonC at 12:41, 5/6/2005, in reply to message #93648
Elite
Right on, Commander!

Posts: 398
That's part of a problem with question marks - they have to go at the end of a sentence. You could break it into two setences, but not without changing the wording and flow and therefore completely destroying the reference to HHGTTG.

Going back on topic, it's perfectly clear that people on all sides of this have made a mountain out of a molehill, and should both have thicker skins and be a bit less ready to dish out criticism and insults for everything they perceive as being wrong, or dislike.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Michael Stubbs Message #93650, posted by arenaman at 06:44, 6/6/2005, in reply to message #93649
Member
Posts: 74
This is really very easy. Peter, stop correcting people's English. This is not necessary and only antagonises people. Next, completely ignore anyone who insults you in the newsgroups and add them to your kill file. I think four people insulted you and only two were worthy of offence. It hardly seems fair to punish the potential thousands of people who would benefit from Firefox because of a public slanging match with only a handful of people. As for the people who got upset at Peter dishing out more advice on English - ignore it, like I did. Or at least, if you want to criticise, you could try doing so in a civil manner.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Peter Naulls Message #93651, posted by pnaulls at 07:29, 6/6/2005, in reply to message #93650
Member
Posts: 317
All of which completely misses the point of course. Are you going to tell all the developers (and users) who've already left RISC OS to "get a thicker skin"? It's not surprising after places like TIB openly antagonising people that they no longer bother.

Are you going to tell the handful of remaining developers the same message? That they have to sit there or ignore people who are being insulting, lazy or dishonest? They may well have far better things to do.

If Firefox is so important, then people other than just me should also be making a huge effort. It's not enough for hundreds of people to be appreciative, but have to suffer such users compounded by getting peanuts for your efforts.

  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
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The Icon Bar: News and features: Peter Naulls - So long? and thanks for all the ports! [Updat