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The Icon Bar: General: Web browsers
 
  Web browsers
  This is a long thread. Click here to view the threaded list.
 
johnstlr Message #3938, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3937
Unregistered user Having been rather negative on another thread I don't want to come across as being so here but I do think asking for a port of something like Mozilla or Opera, without certain features in the OS, is asking rather too much of the developers we have left. I think relying on WebsterXL and Oregano development is our only realistic option.

Right now I don't have the time available to suggest other options - damn this thesis of mine wink

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arenaman Message #3941, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3940
Unregistered user That's correct and it is indeed being rewritten. There's 8 developers now, apparently, so that's good smile

With regards to porting a Web browser, I was not demanding that it be done or anything, but merely suggesting that it would be one of the most useful things to do!

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Matthew Message #3943, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3937
Unregistered user
Now AcornICQ doesn't work

Works fine here. smile You have to get your PC ICQ-using friends to tick the "allow connections to older versions of the ICQ client", but then it seems fine. This is with ethernet, though - over Easter it didn't work at all over a modem; don't know if it was linked.

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arenaman Message #3944, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3942
Unregistered user That might be a good idea! I would offer my help, but I can't program grin
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Hertzsprung Message #3947, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3946
Unregistered user Right, I'm in. Shall I set up a SourceForge project? tongue
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arenaman Message #3948, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3947
Unregistered user Yes!! grin
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andypoole Message #3949, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3947
Unregistered user
Right, I'm in. Shall I set up a SourceForge project? tongue

Go on then! - I can't program much in ROS, but I can make the templates/resources files look sweet smile

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monkeyson Message #3954, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3953
Unregistered user Who'd be silly enough to write a browser in an interpreted language?!? They'll be writing them in BASIC next! tongue

[Edited by monkeyson at 17:00, 15/4/2002]
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Hertzsprung Message #3955, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3954
Unregistered user How silly :cough:websterxl:cough: grin
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johnstlr Message #3956, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3954
Unregistered user
Who'd be silly enough to write a browser in an interpreted language?!? They'll be writing them in BASIC next! tongue

There isn't a problem with this really, well unless of course you consider the fact that your average bottom end Intel processor is at least five times faster than a SA.

Regarding Grail, well you need a port of Tk to handle the UI. Also has anyone looked at whether the code assumes pre-emptive multitasking? In addition how does it handle asynchronous network I/O? Is it portable or, as I suspect, does it require facilities that are not available on RISC OS? I'm not that familiar with Python, let alone the RISC OS port, so have the network libraries been ported to RISC OS exactly?

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davidb Message #3957, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3956
Unregistered user
Who'd be silly enough to write a browser in an interpreted language?!? They'll be writing them in BASIC next! tongue

There isn't a problem with this really, well unless of course you consider the fact that your average bottom end Intel processor is at least five times faster than a SA.

It seems that BASIC has given interpreted languages a bad reputation.


Regarding Grail, well you need a port of Tk to handle the UI. Also has anyone looked at whether the code assumes pre-emptive multitasking? In addition how does it handle asynchronous network I/O? Is it portable or, as I suspect, does it require facilities that are not available on RISC OS?

Grail uses the select module to achieve asynchronous networking.


I'm not that familiar with Python, let alone the RISC OS port, so have the network libraries been ported to RISC OS exactly?

I don't think that the select module is available on RISC OS. Grail appears to have other issues anyway, so it's not a good candidate for a porting effort.

I wasn't seriously suggesting that someone port Grail, just pointing out that one can write a reasonable web browser in Python.

To see an unreasonable web browser (slow and inflexible p@rser[1] and renderer), you could look in the archives at

http://www-solar.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~davidb/Software/Python/GUI/

In particular, look in the

http://www-solar.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~davidb/Software/Python/GUI/gui-16102001.zip

archive and get all later versions if you want various fixes.

For pictures, look at

http://www-solar.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~davidb/Software/Python/GUI/IMG/browser1.png

and

http://www-solar.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~davidb/Software/Python/GUI/IMG/browser2.png

[1] The word "p a r s e r" gets censored on this forum. For fvck's sake...

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Hertzsprung Message #3959, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3956
Unregistered user Tkinter is a piece of junk. It belongs on the scrap heap. Now wxWindows on the other hand ... grin Seriously cooooooool.
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Phlamethrower Message #3962, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3961
Unregistered user Since everyone seems to be complaining about multithreading & network comms, how about writing a module to listen out for network messages and stick them in a buffer. The program could then have a pointer to the start of the buffer/some buffer-been-changed indicator, and read the data whenever it wants. Then to remove a message from the buffer a SWI could be used, or a status word in the message itself could be edited so the module removes it itself whenever the next network message comes along. WIMP apps could be triggered into action by changing their WIMP poll word thing (Can't remember the proper name)

If I had the network docs (And someway of testing this) then I'd write the mdoule myself, then you can all stop complaining wink

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johnstlr Message #3964, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3962
Unregistered user
Since everyone seems to be complaining about multithreading & network comms, how about writing a module to listen out for network messages and stick them in a buffer. The program could then have a pointer to the start of the buffer/some buffer-been-changed indicator, and read the data whenever it wants.

If the application is going to poll like this just create a non-blocking socket.


Then to remove a message from the buffer a SWI could be used, or a status word in the message itself could be edited so the module removes it itself whenever the next network message comes along. WIMP apps could be triggered into action by changing their WIMP poll word thing (Can't remember the proper name)

This is what socket**tch does. The point I am trying to make is that this is not how most network applications on other platforms are structured and thus porting them requires, probably significant, changes to the application's internal architecture.

Is that explicit enough? Sheesh.


If I had the network docs (And someway of testing this) then I'd write the mdoule myself, then you can all stop complaining wink

Go ahead, I still wouldn't be able to port anything I've written in the last 12 months because of the reasons I've outlined several times now.

As for network docs, well the PRMs, StrongHelp, just about any unix network example will all show you how to use the network libraries because the RISC OS stack interface is the BSD interface.

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arenaman Message #3966, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3965
Unregistered user Aaaaanyway...

Enough technical chitter-chatter! Is someone going to setup a sourceforge.net thingy and start coding?

I think it should be called ArenaBrowse 'cause it was all my wonderful idea wink

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Hertzsprung Message #3967, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3966
Unregistered user Yes, I'm going to be setting up the SourceForge project. We have one suggestion for a name. My suggestion: HertzsprungBrowse grin Only kidding.

This has been most interesting reading about the networking side. Personally, I am quite concerned about the HTML pa**er and rendering engine - these seem not to be so capable (or fast) on the ROS browsers I have seen.

More name suggestions, please (sensible ones, if possible ;-) )

[Edit: Hey! Why is p@rser not allowed on this forum frown I've spent a year writing p@rsers: text p@rsers, XML p@rsers, more text p@rsers]

[Edit2: Ah, I think I've just worked it out ;-)]

[Edited by Hertzsprung at 09:32, 18/4/2002]

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flounder Message #3968, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3967
Unregistered user
More name suggestions, please (sensible ones, if possible ;-) )

Iconbar Explorer.
IE for short smile

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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3970, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3969
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
BuffyBot Explorer shock
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moss Message #3971, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3970
Unregistered user Willow Explorer wink
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moss Message #3973, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3972
Unregistered user Prostitute Exploiter.

Oh, OK... I'll have a think for you smile

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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3976, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3973
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Oregano, Fresco... Bilco? smile

Phyton, Lynx, PussyCat? indiff

-Faith (as in, have faith, we'll finish it soon - and also a nice sly E.D. ref)

-CROW (cool risc os web) or CROWBAR (cool risc os web browser, ask rich!)

-ARCWB (A Really Cool Web Browswer - hmm, sounds familiar...)

-RWB (RiscOs Web Browser - it could have a Red, White and Blue logo!)

-FishNet (sorry)

-JCB (Javascript Compliant Broswer)

-ROW (RISC OS Web)

-BETHAN (BEtter THAn Netscape)

-!BROWN (Browse RISC OS Web Net)

-ROB (RISC OS Browser)

-!Rib (Riscos Internet Browser)

...more?

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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3977, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3974
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Cheers. Its just I need a name for the SourceForge project. I don't think you can rename it once its been created.

LeMAR Broswer?

(Lets Make a RISCOS Browser)

indiff

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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3980, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3979
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Ah. Excellent stuff. Perhaps we should vote on this. Rich, could we have a poll on the front-page with vote-o-matic thing on it? That Omega poll has been there since the dawn of time, it seems.

Rich is still sunning himself in <forgot> probably... unhappy

!ROWS (RISC OS Web Surfer)

SWiRO (You can guess this one...)

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arenaman Message #3982, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3981
Unregistered user How about FROB (Free RISC OS Browser)? OK, no grin

Erm, SCROB (Standards Compliant RISC OS Browser)?

Breasts? (moss will like that one)

I don't know, can't think of anything now.

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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3983, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3981
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Rich should be sunning himself in <forgot> with his A4 checking out TIB!

SWiRO, ermm, no dunno

Surf WIth RISC OS!!! Duh! tongue

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Hertzsprung Message #3985, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3983
Unregistered user unhappy
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I don't have tourettes you're just a cun Message #3987, posted by [mentat] at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3984
[mentat]Fear is the mind-killer
Posts: 6266
Does it have to be an acronym?
I suggest @rse (with the ampersat)
just to indicate its origins.
if it could have plugins or components with names like f&k and g!rls then so much the better.
and sockeTw@t, of course.

of course generating an acronym would probably be trivial.

or muff diver, heh.

but crowbar sounds good to me, crows being cool and black n'all.

Yay, someone liked my idea!

"CROWBAR (cool risc os web browser, ask rich!)"

There is a place called Muff, and it has a diving centre. Apparently. smile

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mfrissen Message #3990, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3974
Unregistered user Is this going to be one of those 'I start it, but after a short time, it is much more work than is expected, so I halt the project' projects?

Be aware that *if* you're serious, there is serious effort to be made, you need devotion of people to keep working on a project.
i myself would gladly take part in it, but as a tester (which is my profession grin), not so much a developer, since I have no time for that. People should realise once you start a project you should be able to finish it, and not let it end up dead (ref. Rozilla)..

just my £0.02 - you can count me in as tester if you're serious smile

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moss Message #3991, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3990
Unregistered user Well, I'll do some testing, documentation and ideas, if anything happens... I'd offer to do coding, but I won't be capable of doing serious stuff for a while yet. unhappy
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moss Message #3993, posted at 14:58, 15/6/2002, in reply to message #3992
Unregistered user Hooray! Let's go for it! grin
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