The Icon Bar: General: RISC OS software guide/hints?
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RISC OS software guide/hints? |
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mjkerpan (20:32 19/5/2011)
filecore (20:47 19/5/2011)
trevj (20:50 19/5/2011)
mjkerpan (23:02 19/5/2011)
filecore (07:02 20/5/2011)
nunfetishist (08:27 20/5/2011)
thecellartroll (22:29 19/5/2011)
arawnsley (09:53 20/5/2011)
swirlythingy (22:50 20/5/2011)
Lampi (01:36 21/5/2011)
Lampi (01:50 21/5/2011)
hubersn (13:33 21/5/2011)
nunfetishist (14:28 21/5/2011)
CJE (10:38 26/5/2011)
filecore (11:13 26/5/2011)
andypoole (11:13 26/5/2011)
nunfetishist (11:30 26/5/2011)
bhtooefr (12:15 26/5/2011)
trevj (12:52 26/5/2011)
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Michael Kerpan |
Message #117771, posted by mjkerpan at 20:32, 19/5/2011 |
Member
Posts: 3
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I've been planning to build a little ARM-based computer this summer and from what I've seen, it looks like RISC OS is just about the best, most responsive option for the job. While the basic stuff included in ROOL's build is a good starting point for things to play with, I'm wondering if there are any sort of guides to RISC OS software around on the Net and if folks have any recommendations for must download/buy apps and games. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #117772, posted by filecore at 20:47, 19/5/2011, in reply to message #117771 |
Posts: 3868
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Well, if you want a small ARM-based machine running RISC OS, you want a BeagleBoard (from either perspective).
Software-wise, the scene is pretty much dead. A lot of people are trying to support companies like CJE and APDL, but find their hardware and software prices too expensive. Some disreputable types are resorting to piracy, but personally I disapprove of such methods, which are killing what's left of the community - and besides, it's rumoured that legitimate RISC OS distributors intentionally released viruses into the downloads. Your best bet, to be on the safe side, is probably something like eBay as a compromise between cost and legitimacy. I also recommend you read around before asking more questions; there's a lot of information, especially on sites like ROOL's. |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #117774, posted by trevj at 20:50, 19/5/2011, in reply to message #117771 |
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Posts: 660
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Have you already found http://riscos.info and http://drobe.co.uk? |
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Steven Gregory |
Message #117775, posted by thecellartroll at 22:29, 19/5/2011, in reply to message #117771 |
Member
Posts: 135
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I've been planning to build a little ARM-based computer this summer and from what I've seen, it looks like RISC OS is just about the best, most responsive option for the job. While the basic stuff included in ROOL's build is a good starting point for things to play with, I'm wondering if there are any sort of guides to RISC OS software around on the Net and if folks have any recommendations for must download/buy apps and games. I have installed various Angstrom builds, Android and Risc OS on my Beagleboard. RISC OS is indeed the easiest to get a working system on.
Unfortunately the software support for 32bit RISC OS is pretty limited, if you actually want to do anything with the computer in the next couple of years it is probably better to go with Angstrom.
Of course I wouldn't dream of discouraging a fellow RISC OS user; I merely suggest you have two sd cards for the best of both worlds. Also if you are a programmer yourself you can write some tasty stuff for the rest of us  |
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Michael Kerpan |
Message #117776, posted by mjkerpan at 23:02, 19/5/2011, in reply to message #117774 |
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Posts: 3
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Well, I'd be running this on a BeagleBoard-XM if I decide to go ahead with the project. As for the software cost issue, frankly prices just don't seem TOO bad compared to what people are paying in the Intel world for comparable software. If people are complaining about the prices of packages like TechWriter and ArtWorks, it's clear that they've never seen how much Word and Illustrator cost!
As for writing stuff, I'm not much of a coder, but I'm always willing to go bug hunting and to support projects that I like.
[Edited by mjkerpan at 00:04, 20/5/2011] |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #117777, posted by filecore at 07:02, 20/5/2011, in reply to message #117776 |
Posts: 3868
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it's clear that they've never seen how much Word and Illustrator cost! Actually, most people never have - it's part of the hidden 'Windows tax' where they come bundled for 'free' with a new computer. I doubt many people have ever gone out and actually bought a boxed copy of Office*. And of course the tech-savvy ones will realise that it costs, and download OOo (or a pirated Office) instead, thus sidestepping the cost issue.
* I actually have done so, as I was volunteered into doing tech support for an NGO some years back |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #117778, posted by nunfetishist at 08:27, 20/5/2011, in reply to message #117776 |
 Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 525
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If people are complaining about the prices of packages like TechWriter and ArtWorks, it's clear that they've never seen how much Word and Illustrator cost! They're quite reasonably priced, given their capabilities. But people expect the basics for free, these days. |
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Andrew Rawnsley |
Message #117781, posted by arawnsley at 09:53, 20/5/2011, in reply to message #117771 |
R-Comp chap
Posts: 600
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Hi Michael - nice to see a new face on the forums. I'm Andrew from the company R-Comp - I won't link directly, but a google search will pull us up. We're one of the few RISC OS companies still employing coders etc.
Obviously you need to start with the hardware, and to some extent that will determine what extras are needed. You can, of course, go it alone and do with a downloaded OS and hook up bits yourself. It can be a bit of a project, but several people on the forum have done this. I'm biased, but I'm not a big fan of this approach as the only companies that make money from it are the ones selling the bits you buy (typically PC companies for all the hardware bits) which means that there's not much money going into development this way. Be aware that the OS owners (Castle, RISC OS Ltd) still regard the OS as a commercial OS, and not a free one, which is why we have to licence the OS commercially on the ARMini. This doesn't seem to bother most people, which is quite understandable, but I think you should be aware of the distinction between open/shared source and "free".
Your other alternative would be one of our ARMini systems, which uses a modified xm at its heart, and comes neatly packaged with all the necessary parts, "hook ups", and extras, ready to go with better support for high resolutions and monitors etc. It includes the basic software you'll need, some of which is mentioned below (but not the heavyweight commercial apps, obviously).
Once you're up and running, you'll likely be wanting software. You've seen EasiWriter and Artworks. I'd also recommend Ovation Pro (DTP) which *might* remove the need for EasiWriter as OvPro is an excellent word processor too. However, EasiWriter has MS Word support, which is a pretty big deal, and its Techwriter guise is superb if you're involved with mathematical or scentific documents.
For databasing, there our DataPower 3 software for which there is also a Windows portion for sharing your databases with Windows users. This is programmable, relational and SQL-compliant, whilst using a visual "drag and drop" approach which is pretty friendly. There's a monthly column in Archive magazine about DataPower. Alternatively there is Impact from Sine Nomine which is also relational, but I haven't personally used it. I believe it is pretty good.
For email, there's our Messenger Pro software, and Pluto. To my knowledge, Messenger Pro is the one that is actually developed/supported now, and we've released a version for the xM hardware.
For web, NetSurf would be your browser of choice, most likely. There's a (fairly cumbersome) port of FireFox available from www.riscos.info too. There's no Flash support worth a mention on RISC OS right now 
For music, DigitalCD is probably your best option. I believe the StudioSound audio sequencer is compatible too.
For video, erm, that's a bit of a problem right now. KinoAmp for MPEG stuff. !FFmpeg allows conversion to MPEG which can then be played via KinoAmp - probably your best bet. Hopefully this will be improved as more of the capabilities of the CPU are unlocked.
For development, GCC and/or the RISC OS open dev tools.
For graphics, Artworks (vector) and PhotoDesk (bitmap) would by your main selections. That said, OpenVector is a useful half-way house, and for certain work, you'd be surprised what you can do with the standard !Draw, !Paint and !ChangeFSI.
I'd also recommend !PrivatEye and/or !SwiftJPEG for image viewing.
Spreadsheets are more of a problem, as there aren't xM versions of most. I believe Fireworkz is being updated (there's a 32bit version already, although I haven't tried it).
For networking, you'll probably want LanMan98 although the standard OmniClient can achieve similar results (although not as reliably). You'd also probably benefit from our UniPrint software, which is a network program for printing, scanning, data sharing, clipboard transfers, remote access and all sorts of things. It can effectively get round some of the rough edges on RISC OS. You might also find !Avalanche (VNC) useful or one of the Rdesktop remote desktop ports.
For backup, I'd suggest our SafeStore 2 software, although there's also 7backup and !dirsync as other options.
There are also many freeware utility programs which people love. It's a bit hard to advise on these, however.
Make sure to subscribe to the comp.sys.acorn.announce newsgroup to keep up with latest software, hardware and usergroup news - that's imperative, and free. The Archive magazine is also worth being subscirbed to, but costs money. It contains a varied assortment of (generally) well-written, informative articles each month covering everything from reviews to exhibition reports, usergroup news, programming, hints and tips and so on.
I am *sure* that I've failed to cover a number of areas, and missed out important apps. There are a number of older applications which are excellent, but which won't work on the xM, so I haven't mentioned those. Hopefully we'll see more updated software as time passes. |
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Martin Bazley |
Message #117783, posted by swirlythingy at 22:50, 20/5/2011, in reply to message #117781 |
Posts: 460
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Something he doesn't mention:
Cost of ARMini: £599 (inc. VAT)
Cost of BeagleBoard-xM: $149 (probably excl. VAT, but allow for exchange rate etc.)
I'm sure there's a proper review of it somewhere made by someone who actually owns one of the things, but for the time being here's some drivel I wrote last month which basically concluded it was a BeagleBoard-xM with a few minor modifications (and an RTC battery, if, like me, you're not man enough to wield a soldering iron).
A cheaper bet is the less-hyped BIK, as long as you understand German. |
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James Lampard |
Message #117784, posted by Lampi at 01:36, 21/5/2011, in reply to message #117783 |
Posts: 190
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A cheaper bet is the less-hyped BIK, as long as you understand German. The ARMini and BIK have exactly the same case, I hadn't realised that until now. |
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James Lampard |
Message #117785, posted by Lampi at 01:50, 21/5/2011, in reply to message #117784 |
Posts: 190
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It's this one http://www.linkworld.com.tw/ugC_ShowroomItem_Detail.asp?hidShowKindID=2&hidShowTypeID=8&hidShowCatID=15&hidShowID=105
Looks to be available for around £30 |
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Steffen Huber |
Message #117787, posted by hubersn at 13:33, 21/5/2011, in reply to message #117783 |
Member
Posts: 91
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Something he doesn't mention:
Cost of ARMini: £599 (inc. VAT)
Cost of BeagleBoard-xM: $149 (probably excl. VAT, but allow for exchange rate etc.)
That is not an entirely fair comparison.
I will make the comparison for Germany/BIK, because I have one so know exactly what you get and pay ;-)
My BIK consists of:
- BeagleBoard xM (150 €)
- the "K" in "BIK" (case) (50 €)
- S-ATA slimline DVD+/-RW drive (40 €)
- S-ATA-USB-converter (10 €)
- Micro SD card for RO ROM (5 €)
- 8 GB USB stick for !Boot (10 €)
- 250 GB internal USB HDD (40 €)
- powerful PSU (40 €)
- adapter to allow HDMI or DVI connection (5 €)
- internal Belkin USB hub (15 €)
- custom backplate
- internal wiring (e.g. to connect USB and sound input/output to front of case)
All in all, the parts alone will cost you around 370 €. I paid less than 500 € for everything already put together, parts that were tested to work together, and a one-stop for warranty issues.
So at least the BIK is IMHO a good deal. |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #117788, posted by nunfetishist at 14:28, 21/5/2011, in reply to message #117787 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 525
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My BIK consists of:
(snip)
So at least the BIK is IMHO a good deal.
It does look good value. If people are going to be packaging these xMs in cases, it looks to be the time to just bite the bullet and design a trivial PCB with hub etc on-board to mop up all those nasty bits of bodge wire. Could probably do it on a dual-layer board, too, so it wouldn't be expensive. |
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Chris Evans |
Message #117831, posted by CJE at 10:38, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117787 |
CJE Micros chap
Posts: 228
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You haven't included licensing costs.
A license from Castle for the Code and a license from RISC OS Ltd to sell into their exclusive market!
n.b. Requireing two licenses is not that uncommon or onerous provided the charges are appropriate which I believe they are. |
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Jason Togneri |
Message #117832, posted by filecore at 11:13, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117831 |
Posts: 3868
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You haven't included licensing costs.
A license from Castle for the Code I thought it was "free" to download from ROOL?
and a license from RISC OS Ltd to sell into their exclusive market! But the whole point of this thread is that the OP is building one himself - in which case, why would he be selling into ROL's market? |
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Andrew Poole |
Message #117833, posted by andypoole at 11:13, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117831 |
Posts: 5558
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You haven't included licensing costs.
A license from Castle for the Code and a license from RISC OS Ltd to sell into their exclusive market!
n.b. Requireing two licenses is not that uncommon or onerous provided the charges are appropriate which I believe they are. Surely this doesn't apply, since the original comparison was for building your own by sourcing your own bits. Thus, you won't need a license from ROL, since you're not selling it, and you won't need to pay for a Castle license, since you're not commercially using the code.
Having said that, it would be interesting to know how much the price difference would be if you were to buy an ARMini without RISC OS bundled... |
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Rob Kendrick |
Message #117834, posted by nunfetishist at 11:30, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117833 |
Today's phish is trout a la creme.
Posts: 525
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Having said that, it would be interesting to know how much the price difference would be if you were to buy an ARMini without RISC OS bundled... Castle have a pricing widget on their website, where you say how many licences you want over what period, and how quickly you'll give Castle free reign over all your code. It boils down to around a tenner. |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #117836, posted by bhtooefr at 12:15, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117834 |
Member
Posts: 337
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Also looks like it depends on quantity. Of course, that would require there to be anything more than hobbyist-level sales.  |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #117837, posted by trevj at 12:52, 26/5/2011, in reply to message #117834 |
Member
Posts: 660
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Castle have a pricing widget on their website [...] When did they sneak that out? I'm sure it wasn't there a month or two ago! The pages state "Copyright © 2011 Castle Technology Ltd" but the products were apparently added on "Thursday 14 May, 2009." And the Conditions of Use are "Valid from 30/1/2011".
[Edit: Even more bizarrely, why does this 2008 page at the Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/20080509080412/http://www.castle-technology.co.uk/castle/front.shtml) redirect to the Catholic Health Association of the United States?  ]
[Edited by trevj at 13:59, 26/5/2011] |
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The Icon Bar: General: RISC OS software guide/hints? |
