The Icon Bar: General: LCD Monitor Defs for Risc PC
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LCD Monitor Defs for Risc PC |
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funkycornwall (23:09 9/3/2010)
bhtooefr (02:05 10/3/2010)
bhtooefr (05:25 10/3/2010)
Phlamethrower (08:46 10/3/2010)
bhtooefr (14:55 10/3/2010)
funkycornwall (10:15 14/3/2010)
funkycornwall (14:25 15/3/2010)
bhtooefr (14:30 15/3/2010)
funkycornwall (17:29 15/3/2010)
bhtooefr (01:27 16/3/2010)
funkycornwall (19:19 16/3/2010)
trevj (20:19 16/3/2010)
bhtooefr (23:50 16/3/2010)
funkycornwall (19:14 23/3/2010)
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113635, posted by funkycornwall at 23:09, 9/3/2010 |
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Posts: 8
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I still like to use my Risc PC occasionally mainly for Sibelius 7. However I would like to be able to use it better on my 22 inch Samsung screen. It works OK but is not as sharp as my old CRT monitor or the same screen with my PC. I am clueless as to how to obtain or apply Acorn Monitor definitions. Also if I did obtain some then I would have to download to a PC floppy and then convert suitably so that I could apply to the RiscPC.
Any advice on how I go about this would be much appreciated
Thanks |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113636, posted by bhtooefr at 02:05, 10/3/2010, in reply to message #113635 |
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Posts: 337
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What model is the display, and how much VRAM do you have? This is important, both for the resolution, and for the minimum vertical refresh.
If you don't have any, get some. You'll need it. Preferably 2 megs.
This document (PostScript file) says how MDFs work.
Modes have to fit into the available VRAM, and into the video bandwidth limitations of the RiscPC.
The modes I'm listing are 256 color modes, and are 16:9 or 16:10. For less colors, you get higher resolution, more colors, lower resolution. 256 is what I consider my minimum acceptable on RISC OS. (And, really, it's quite good considering how 256 colors looks on other platforms.) They're all reduced blanking, which is fine for almost all LCDs.
I've not tested the MDFs I'm posting.
On 1 MiB VRAM, 1280x800 is the most you can do at 256 colors. Using VESA standard reduced blanking, you can run 60 Hz no problem, within the 76 MiB/s limitation (which, at 256 colors, is a 76 MHz pixel clock.) The section of the MDF describing that mode would look like this:
# 1280 x 800 (60 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1280 x 800
x_res:1280
y_res:800
pixel_rate:71000
h_timings:32,80,0,1280,0,48
v_timings:6,14,0,800,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
You can use up to 64 Hz, if your monitor's native refresh rate is higher. MDF follows.
# 1280 x 800 (64 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1280 x 800
x_res:1280
y_res:800
pixel_rate:76000
h_timings:32,80,0,1280,0,48
v_timings:6,16,0,800,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
On 2 MiB VRAM, 1920x1080 is the most you can do.
60 Hz MDF:
# 1920 x 1080 (60 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1920 x 1080
x_res:1920
y_res:1080
pixel_rate:138500
h_timings:32,80,0,1920,0,48
v_timings:5,23,0,1080,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
And, you can get up to 65.6 Hz (I'll note that this is the ragged edge of what the RiscPC video hardware can handle):
# 1920 x 1080 (65.6 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1920 x 1080
x_res:1920
y_res:1080
pixel_rate:152000
h_timings:32,80,0,1920,0,48
v_timings:5,26,0,1080,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
However, I'm going to guess that your display is 1680x1050. At that resolution, you still need 2 megs of VRAM. Here's a 60 Hz MDF:
# 1680 x 1050 (60 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1680 x 1050
x_res:1680
y_res:1050
pixel_rate:119000
h_timings:32,80,0,1680,0,48
v_timings:6,21,0,1050,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
75 Hz:
# 1680 x 1050 (75 Hz)
startmode
mode_name:1680 x 1050
x_res:1680
y_res:1050
pixel_rate:150000
h_timings:32,80,0,1680,0,48
v_timings:6,29,0,1050,0,3
sync_pol:2
endmode
You can use !MakeModes to make an MDF, although I recall it being difficult to use. When I made the MDF for my monitor, I think I modified the MDF for an Acorn AKF85 to add the mode I needed.
Alternately, post up the model of your monitor, and I can even make that into a complete MDF for you. Or, if you'd rather manually add the appropriate mode for your monitor into a modified AKF85 MDF yourself, go for it. |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113637, posted by bhtooefr at 05:25, 10/3/2010, in reply to message #113636 |
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Posts: 337
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Better yet, here's a generic MDF that in theory will work for any LCD. Timings are VESA CTF Reduced Blanking. I've optimized this for systems with VRAM, and added refresh rates that are exactly at 76 MHz (for some modes that would otherwise be 16 colors with 1 MiB VRAM) and 152 MHz (for some modes that would otherwise be 16 colors with 2 MiB VRAM) pixel rates.
http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/files/LCD.mdf
Navigate to !Boot.Resources.Configure.Monitors, create Generic, and save that file as LCD, filetype Text, in there. Now, open the Screen or Display applet in Configure, change your monitor to Generic LCD, and all of the modes should be there.
The following modes are supported in this MDF:
Resolutions for 256 colors with 1 MiB VRAM (* denoting refresh rates that require 2 MiB VRAM, or 16 color mode):
1280 x 720 (60, 70.8, 75*, 100*, 120* Hz) - for some 720p TVs and low-resolution 16:9 monitors
1280 x 800 (60, 64, 75* Hz) - for low-resolution 16:10 monitors
1360 x 768 (60, 63.1, 75*, 100*, 120* Hz) - for some 18.5" 720p TVs and low-resolution 16:9 monitors
1366 x 768 (59.9, 62.9, 74.8*, 99.9*, 120* Hz) - for some 720p TVs and low-resolution 16:9 monitors (these are actually 1368 x 768, and probably won't work - use 1360 x 768 if you have problems. TEST THESE BEFORE SETTING THEM IN CONFIGURE.)
Resolutions for 256 colors with 2 MiB VRAM (* denoting refresh rates that require 16 color mode)
1280 x 1024 (75 Hz) - for 17" and 19" 5:4 monitors (60 Hz already present as an AKF85 mode)
1400 x 1050 (60, 75 Hz) - for some 20" 4:3 monitors
1440 x 900 (60, 75 Hz) - for 17" and 19" 16:10 monitors
1600 x 900 (60, 75 Hz) - for 20" 16:9 monitors
1600 x 1200 (60, 69.6, 75* Hz) - for most 20 and 21" 4:3 monitors
1680 x 1050 (60, 75 Hz) - for some 19" and 20", and most 22" 16:10 monitors
1920 x 1080 (60, 65.6, 75*, 100*, 120* Hz) - for 1080p TVs and most 21.5" and larger 16:9 monitors
1920 x 1200 (59.2, 60*, 75* Hz) - for most 24" and larger 16:10 monitors (on some RiscPCs, 60 Hz @ 256 colors may work if the VIDC bandwidth limit is raised to 154 MHz)
2048 x 1152 (58.1, 60*, 75* Hz) - for some 23" 16:9 monitors (on some RiscPCs, 60 Hz @ 256 colors may work if the VIDC bandwidth limit is raised to 156.75 MHz)
Resolutions for 16 colors with 2 MiB VRAM (some of these modes may not work):
2048 x 1536 (50, 60 Hz) - for some high-end 21" 4:3 monitors |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #113639, posted by Phlamethrower at 08:46, 10/3/2010, in reply to message #113637 |
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I'd be surprised if any of those reduced blanking modes work on a standard RiscPC - most/all of them throw up warnings when checked in !MakeModes. And in my experience those warnings are important (for RiscPC's), since MakeModes was written with the VIDC's limitations in mind.
Also I'd be surprised if you can get 1920x1200 or 2048x1152 in 256 colours, considering that those modes both contain > 2M pixels  |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113649, posted by bhtooefr at 14:55, 10/3/2010, in reply to message #113639 |
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Posts: 337
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Doh. I forgot about that when making the list. I'll move them down, and remove the 59 and 58 Hz modes (they were there solely to fit in the timings.)
Still, they're worth a shot.
If anyone can try them on an actual RiscPC, and report back, that'd be great.
[Edited by bhtooefr at 14:59, 10/3/2010] |
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113697, posted by funkycornwall at 10:15, 14/3/2010, in reply to message #113649 |
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Posts: 8
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Thanks for all your helpful info - I have 2MB VRAM installed. I'll try some of your suggestions. |
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113707, posted by funkycornwall at 14:25, 15/3/2010, in reply to message #113636 |
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Posts: 8
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Hi Eric,
Tried some of the with varying success also tried the Novatech 24 mdf files which were on the Paul Vigay site. Using AKF85 my machine works quite well at both 1280 x 1024 and 1024 x 768. However I tried some of your modes and caused screen havoc so had to do a total reset. I discovered that the best picture came from the Novatech modes at 1680 x 1050. This was a pin sharp picture and works with everything except Sibelius!! I think Sibelius used a special fast screen system that was not totally standard for Acorn. This meant it responded really fast but was not WYSIWYG. Consequently this brilliant picture is no good for my purposes!If there was anyway that you could adapt this mode so that it would work with Sibelius that would be brilliant. If you send me your email address I could send you the Novatech files.
Thanks for all your help by the way
Tony
[Edited by funkycornwall at 18:05, 16/3/2010] |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113708, posted by bhtooefr at 14:30, 15/3/2010, in reply to message #113707 |
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Posts: 337
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OK, I guess I'll have to play around in MakeModes, and see if I can get "semi-reduced" blanking modes made that are VIDC compatible. I can grab the Novatech files myself, though. |
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113719, posted by funkycornwall at 17:29, 15/3/2010, in reply to message #113708 |
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Posts: 8
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I was using a Samsung Syncmaster 22 inch monitor by the way.
The 1680 x 1050 mode was brilliant - if only it worked with Sibelius!
It's very good of you to asist.
My email if you need it is tonycliff(at)talk21 (dot)com
Thanks again |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113730, posted by bhtooefr at 01:27, 16/3/2010, in reply to message #113708 |
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Posts: 337
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Here goes nothing.
I replaced the MDF with a version that I made using !MakeModes. Took me all day to get the modes converted to something that will supposedly work.
See http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/files/LCD.mdf
Couldn't test all of them, as my settings got corrupted partway through. The 1400x1050 ones didn't work in RPCEmu, though. I did remove the 1366x768 modes, use 1360x768 instead. |
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113735, posted by funkycornwall at 19:19, 16/3/2010, in reply to message #113730 |
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Posts: 8
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Hi Eric,
Tried the new modes you produced and thanks for all your work. I edited out the non 60Hz ones as this is needed for my monitor and I thought the otherrs might confuse matters. Then I loaded the 1680 X 1050 one. The picture was very sharp and worked OK with Sibelius. However it does not fill the screen. It ends up being approx the size of a 20 inch CRT screen. There was approx 1 inch black space on LHS and 3 inches on RHS. the image was squashed vertically. The Paul Vigay version of this mode worked well in everything except Sibelius. I'm afraid I don't know enough to understand these things. |
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Trevor Johnson |
Message #113736, posted by trevj at 20:19, 16/3/2010, in reply to message #113735 |
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Posts: 660
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I'm afraid I don't know enough to understand these things.
I presume you're already on the Sibelius mailing list and have checked there (assuming it's still running). I see there's a Hitachi CM751ET MDF by Jonathan Finn available... but I think that's a CRT monitor. I hope you manage to get a further improvement soon. |
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Eric Rucker |
Message #113737, posted by bhtooefr at 23:50, 16/3/2010, in reply to message #113735 |
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Posts: 337
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I might need to add in some borders to compensate, then. Of course, that'll make the timings even tighter.
Also, your monitor may provide some adjustments for the VGA input, so that you can line things up properly. |
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Tony Cliff |
Message #113770, posted by funkycornwall at 19:14, 23/3/2010, in reply to message #113737 |
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Just tried the RiscPC using your Monitor Defs (latest versions) and 1440 x 900 at 60hz works well and also works with Sibelius. That seems the best so far. I tried the 1680 x 1050 again at 60hz and this worked OK in everything except Sibelius. Don't know if this is helpful information or not but the 1440 x 900 is a good compromise. |
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The Icon Bar: General: LCD Monitor Defs for Risc PC |
